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I want non-capitalistic turn based strategy games. Which means not war (or war=game over) and not trading-for-accumulation.

What other concepts could a strategy game be built on?

Cooperation, possibly as trading for mutual benefit?
Scoring of welfare rather than wealth? (It's a game, it likely needs some kind of scoring)
Infrastructure construction and maintenance?

To be explicit, I'm asking for input and suggestions.

@undefined hmm. Interesting suggestion! I now realise I had a much narrower genre in mind than what I described.
But I could probably draw some inspiration from Niche.

@zatnosk
Environmental rebuilding?
Where measures you take are amplified by getting your neighbours to adopt similar/same/complimentary measures.

@CreatureOfTheHill oh, that's an interesting one. But it kinda assumes that humans have already destroyed / harmed the environment, and that's a bit too post-apoc for what I want.

@zatnosk
Aye, there is that. Though starting something from the current world state would not be unrealistic.
What about bioforming a dead world. Bring life and diversity to where the was none?

@CreatureOfTheHill I don't think I have enough mastery of the medium to be so nuanced as to not make a caricature of anything I try to represent.

Bioforming is a good suggestion (and I like that you're not calling it terraforming), but I'm not sure what an interesting starting point would be; no air, no plants, no animals?

@zatnosk
Not beholden to any ideas, just throwing things out there BTW.
Also *totally* get the idea vs being able to achieve actualisation is very fundamental. Talking about stiff we would find ourselves imposing limits based on what we could achieve. So very "pie in the sky" thoughts.

Start with rock, no atmosphere.
Creating an atmosphere would involve co-operation with those around, to be effective. Cannot be centralised.

@zatnosk
Infrastructure put in to create the atmosphere would have to be removed/modified afterwards.
So going for maximum speed, would create a cost/impact later.

Scored based on regional/global air quality, bio-diversity, resistance to things like disease outbreak, freak weather occurrences, disputes between neighbours.

Bonuses for raising multiple co-operative communities across species?

@zatnosk some kind of artificial ecosystem (space station? big dome on some alien world? a big ship adrift in the ocean of a veneriformed earth?) is on the verge of collapse and you need to co-operate with randomized, limited resources to build *something* that can restore the original order, or maybe some other order that still achieves equilibrium that lets the inhabitants survive

@zatnosk Yeah, when I thought about it in a "would be nice if it existed" way, what came to mind was scoring by welfare/happiness.
Are everyone's basic needs met, how much freetime can people have besides their jobs, is there "luxury" infrastructure like parks and libraries and such available, whatnot.

@zatnosk
What do you think of https://play.eco/ ?

Not the game itself, but the concept. It's not turn-based, and I've never played it, and some solar punks in https://scuttlebutt.nz/ who played it gave the economics very bad reviews.

One of them said, " they added wage labor to their server code, including penalties if the wage laborers don’t wage labor hard enough."

But maybe a similar concept could be done better?

@bhaugen definitely something I should dig into and see what I can do with. Thanks for linking it! :blobcat:

@zatnosk Equality points.

Start with two or more genders. Arrange life in topical 'areas'. Go beyond the thought of patriarchy and realize that men and other genders are unequal in specific 'areas of life' where women are not. (such as prison, divorces, suicides etc)

The game assigns equality points to each gender. The strategic goal is to level it out to equality. To lower OR increase points until everyone is on the same level.

Biggest societal/life point change wins.

@zatnosk I never played strategy games. Perhaps it exist.

You could play on power. Each players is a sociopath. It's not trading for accumulation but manipulating for more power. It's not war (the whole concept falls if you're American or Brit because they call anything war against X)

Control over others is more important than money, possessions, land etc) it's not capitalism because power exist within a communist economy too. Each person in a group is more (1/2)

@zatnosk shared power within a group gives equal power per person, but if that group (as in communist transition period perhaps) has more power than another group with shared power, then every person in one group scores higher.

Now is the guestion for a player how do you manipulate your way to more power within that shared group (influencing consensus decisions for example)

Most control over most people win the game. (not most money, land, attention, etc) (2/2)

@zatnosk The equality game would probably be more realistic and fun as it deals with a real life like situation.

The sociopath game is too much made up dystopia so it probably wouldn't be possible to make a game around it. Also too depressing to think about.

I've never made a game and never played strategy games (perhaps chess once or twice, but it's quite boring) and the ideas might very well exists already. It was just two spontanious thoughts around your game question.

@zatnosk sorry, one more.

Most kg CO2 removed from the atmosphere wins.

Each player start with a given budget and the tools are existing technologies. Climeworks, Carbon Engineering, puro.earth, carbfex etc.

If you plant a forest and it burns in a forest fire, zero points. Plant a tree pyrolise it to biochar Berry it underground X points.

Tell me if you begin making such a game, because I'm working in real life towards the vision of a restored atmosphere 2099.

@zatnosk There's a tabletop game kind of like this where you need to cooperatively build a Peruvian(?) temple and the pieces are really pretty. Basically if you can't place a piece, you add a level to the height, and if you make it fall, you lose.

It's not available in the US, if it helps find it. The guy at the gaming group had to import it from the UK.

@zatnosk another way to approach the problem: reimagining killing floor, but the main activity is something other than killing zombies

@carcinopithecus killing floor is neither turn based or strategy. I have no idea what you're suggesting.

@zatnosk sorry, skimmed past the turn-based part

there´s def strategy in kf though fwiw

@carcinopithecus there's strategy in counterstrike, that doesn't make it a strategy game.

@zatnosk @katnjiapus The Aquacorn Cove board game is maybe a place to look for inspiration. My kids had an idea I liked about a cooperative board game about working to build a safe home for your community in a green post apocalypse.

@amandag oh, I have played it. And the original flash games :P

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