:blobwizard: Tsatnosk is a user on manowar.social. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse.
:blobwizard: Tsatnosk @zatnosk

I want a social web, where...
● "sandboxed" plugins can modify the presentation of content, so the server can be optimized for any client.
● the server is content agnostic
● my account is spread over multiple servers/instances/nodes.
● any node can have arbitrary downtime without problem as long as some node representing me is up, so my phone and my laptop can be nodes in themselves
● offline peer2peer
● Emoji hashtags

@zatnosk we are working on addressing some of that with Dodo. Your first point is one of my biggest complaints about mastodon.

Offline p2p is a hard problem but I think it is solvable. I hope so at least.

@inmysocks That's awesome. I think the tiny group I'm a part of (Exodus) have been halted in our attempts at building p2p social web, although we had a lot of great brainstorming :)

Offline p2p is hard, but I know it's theoretically possible, so we "just" need to build the architecture. I think one of the things compounding the hardness, is that the whole mobile ecosystem is build for a client-server world, and we'd have to rip that up with roots.

@zatnosk yeah, me and Ekaitz are working on a some of that with Dodo. Everything is in Node now so it won't work on most mobile stuff but we can work on that later. It sounds like we are hoping to do similar things so check out Dodo if you have time. It is still in the very early stages of development. gitlab.com/inmysocks/Dodo

@inmysocks @zatnosk I guess y'all have looked at #ssb (Secure Scuttlebutt)? I like some of the ideas behind it, but have a lot of issues with the project and the implementation.

@gcupc @zatnosk It does look like it has a lot of the same ideas we are going for with Dodo, but I don't like the reliance on pub servers. We are running into the same problem as they are but we are working on using some other things as solutions.

We will probably end up having things that in a social context are equivalent (remote semi-public message board) but I am not planning on having the same stream based interfaces between nodes.

@jeroenpraat not really, in my reading of it.

0. Where's the documentation? I can't find it :(

1. I'm not sure if plugins are powerful enough or easy enough to implement and share.

2. Probably, but where's docs?

3. Hubzilla has movable identity + backups. This is NOT the same as actual distributed identity - and I don't think I can use my laptop as a reliable ~50% uptime hub.

4. No p2p :(

So, apart from migrating identity, Hubzilla isn't really closer than Diaspora* or Mastodon.

@zatnosk The docs are on every Hubzilla hub with the prefix /help. Also take a look on Github.

Profiles (channels) can be cloned. That means you can migrate a channel, but also have a channel on multiple channels in sync. So you don't have to worry when server goes down Another unique feature of the Zot protocol (the protocol Hubzilla uses) is the cross-server permission model.

@jeroenpraat I managed to find the docs, but the github repo wasn't any help there, and it wasn't exactly obvious from the hubzilla.org page.

I've researched the Zot protocol before, and I maintain my stance that the nomadic identity in that protocol isn't "enough" - There's still a concept of "primary hub" which makes other nodes secondary, and means it requires fancy footwork when the primary hub goes down. This will be hell to convert to any meaningful form of p2p.

@jeroenpraat I agree the zot protocol is a step in the right direction, but there's so much missing, that I'd rather focus my efforts elsewhere.

@jeroenpraat I haven't tried SSB, but read about it, and while they're doing awesome work, their whole network is designed for a "everything is public" world. I don't see any feasible way to use SSB for private communication among a group.
This is mostly due to having one feed/blockchain/sigchain per identity, and no other way of publishing content - sure, you can encrypt it to target someone, but by spreading the encrypted message, you leak metadata.

@zatnosk I assume you already know about Matrix/Riot?

There is also Briar (in beta)?
But I don't know if it has group chat.

@jeroenpraat I know about Matrix/Riot, but I'm of the impression that it's mostly for realtime communication?

Oooh, I didn't know about Briar! They have group chats and a form of forums - very promising! Thanks for the link! :D

@jeroenpraat @zatnosk
to just mention some other #p2p you might be interested:
- #retroshare
- #twister

Also it might be usefull to phrase you're needs/wants and question and add them into the #hubzilla support channel,
there might be the chance that ppl have interest in your idea and/or that zot could be capable for more stuff then ppl are aware off
If the secound is the case, mike, the main dev of zot should know about.

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat nice, thanks. Will look into it later :)

@zatnosk @paulfree14 Meanwhile @andrewmanning@grid.reticu.li added links on hubzilla.org/ to the relevant help pages.

@jeroenpraat @paulfree14 awesome! That will definitely help me the next time I forget how to find stuff :D

@zatnosk There's always a primary hub, but when that one is down you can always use the secondary. There's no difference in functionality between primary and secondary hubs.

And you can easily change to another primary from a secondary or wait until that is done automatically when the old primary stays down.

But I will tell the hubzilla.org maintainer to the docs on there.

@jeroenpraat but why is there a need to specify a primary hub in the first place?

Oh, a "docs" or "documentation" button in the header navigation would be nice :)

@zatnosk Don't ask me, but the developers.

But please let me know if you find something that suits your needs.